Healthcare Reform

[Rock & Roll Ghost]

does it have to be in the constitution?

and power grab? what was the stomping on our civil rights the previous 8 years?

[Spaz]

Originally Posted by Rock & Roll Ghost does it have to be in the constitution? and power grab? what was the stomping on our civil rights the previous 8 years?

yes power grab. and i agree with you on the last 8 years .

[Rock & Roll Ghost]

I don't know about the power grab thing - I think a public option - another choice is a good idea. It will be a good kick in the ass letting the health care industry know how displeased people are with them.

[Spaz]

Originally Posted by Rock & Roll Ghost I don't know about the power grab thing - I think a public option - another choice is a good idea. It will be a good kick in the ass letting the health care industry know how displeased people are with them.

the govt . proposed reform as is now will give them control of one sixth of the economy.
thats a lot power that they don't have now . just saying..

[Spaz]

First, any honest lawyer or lay person who has truly read the health bill, passed by the House, the only conclusion one could come to is that it is NOT a health care reform piece of legislation. However it is clearly a federal government power grab to control health benefits and treatments under private or public plans.

It further will take away responsibilities or restrictions concerning same from the local State Governments, doctors and private insurance companies and put this power and responsibility into the hands of an UN-elected health Commissioner.

With more than 85% of Americans satisfied with the coverage available to them, why are Democrats and Republican Senators and House Members, supported by their respective political parties, lobbyists and special interest groups, rushing to Dismantle the existing health care insurance programs?

Do Americans travel to Canada, Cuba, England or France etc. to seek health care? Of course not.

Is the so called reform, then, mainly to include health benefits for the 15 to 20 million illegal's and non-Americans? Is it to cover the 2 to 3 million who do not have and can not afford health care coverage for political reasons?

Or, the power grab is it is written, for the Federal Government and political parties too further control your life style, treatment and health benefits through unelected bureaucrats and czars making treatment or benefit decisions for us based on the cheapest available drug or health procedures? The one blue pill fits all approach!

Why is there NO clause or statement in any proposed health reform bill or HR3200 that specifically states that NON-CITIZENS will NOT be entitled to benefits under the Government socialized universal health care program. WHY?

The Obama power grab for a socialized universal health care government run program, will lead to the complete dismantling of the current health care insurance system within 5 years. Read it, it is in the bill.

Now Obama-Care is considering Government financed co-operative non-profit health care insurance programs. This in itself might be a good move, but it raises a number of questions that need to be answered.

Like is the Government going to fund these co-operative non-profits out of our taxes?

Is there going to be a restriction that clearly states that only legalized American residents will be in a position to join and receive benefits from these Coops.?

If they are funded through taxes, like those companies who asked for and took the tarp money they will be subject to how the money is spend and what health services will be covered and who will be calling the shots relating to treatments? Government unelected bureaucrats and political czars or patience's and their doctors? As, all these also presently exist in the House Bill 3200. Read it.

Further if and when these non-profits were to go bankrupt, would we the tax payers have to bail them out, like was done with Banks and Auto sector? Of course we would, just ask Senators like Barney Franks or other that are hiding from the voters.

So is it really a move away from a socialized universal health care or just another way for this Government to come in with dismantling the current health care insurance programs over a five year period, through the back door by taxpayer funding for these Coop, non-profit health care insurance programs through HR3200 which is the largest Federal Government power grab from the people and their doctors and local State Governments in history of our Federation?

[kali]

An interview with Wendell Potter

former head of corporate communications at Cigna, one of the largest health insurance companies in America. an interesting interview.

Guernica: Shifting to President Obama’s plan: critics often say that Obama’s healthcare plan would be detrimental to care because it would take decisions away from doctors and patients and put them in the hands of a government bureaucrat. Is this a legitimate concern? Wendell Potter: No. But it is one of those talking points the industry repeats every time we have a debate about reform. They said it in 1993. They say it whenever the industry is under threat of increased government involvement. What I’m telling people is that our current reality is far scarier than the fear-mongering. What people have now is a corporate bureaucrat who stands between a person and his or her doctor. That’s much scarier than the specter of more government. In any event, there is nothing in any healthcare plan that is being proposed that would put a government bureaucrat between a person and his or her doctor. Guernica: Why is a corporate bureaucrat scarier? Wendell Potter: Because every person who works for a for-profit company knows that the company has to meet Wall Street’s expectations. Every manager of the company has to pull his or her weight to make sure he and his team are doing all that they can to help the company meet that objective. That includes medical directors. Same with the nurses. They know what the company has to do to meet Wall Street’s expectations and to stay in the good graces of investors. Guernica: So in other words, corporate bureaucrats have a profit incentive to deny care to people who are enrolled in their plans.

[Ken Masters]

Originally Posted by SPAZREED First, any honest lawyer or lay person who has truly read the health bill, passed by the House, the only conclusion one could come to is that it is NOT a health care reform piece of legislation. However it is clearly a federal government power grab to control health benefits and treatments under private or public plans. It further will take away responsibilities or restrictions concerning same from the local State Governments, doctors and private insurance companies and put this power and responsibility into the hands of an UN-elected health Commissioner. With more than 85% of Americans satisfied with the coverage available to them, why are Democrats and Republican Senators and House Members, supported by their respective political parties, lobbyists and special interest groups, rushing to Dismantle the existing health care insurance programs? Do Americans travel to Canada, Cuba, England or France etc. to seek health care? Of course not. Is the so called reform, then, mainly to include health benefits for the 15 to 20 million illegal's and non-Americans? Is it to cover the 2 to 3 million who do not have and can not afford health care coverage for political reasons? Or, the power grab is it is written, for the Federal Government and political parties too further control your life style, treatment and health benefits through unelected bureaucrats and czars making treatment or benefit decisions for us based on the cheapest available drug or health procedures? The one blue pill fits all approach! Why is there NO clause or statement in any proposed health reform bill or HR3200 that specifically states that NON-CITIZENS will NOT be entitled to benefits under the Government socialized universal health care program. WHY? The Obama power grab for a socialized universal health care government run program, will lead to the complete dismantling of the current health care insurance system within 5 years. Read it, it is in the bill. Now Obama-Care is considering Government financed co-operative non-profit health care insurance programs. This in itself might be a good move, but it raises a number of questions that need to be answered. Like is the Government going to fund these co-operative non-profits out of our taxes? Is there going to be a restriction that clearly states that only legalized American residents will be in a position to join and receive benefits from these Coops.? If they are funded through taxes, like those companies who asked for and took the tarp money they will be subject to how the money is spend and what health services will be covered and who will be calling the shots relating to treatments? Government unelected bureaucrats and political czars or patience's and their doctors? As, all these also presently exist in the House Bill 3200. Read it. Further if and when these non-profits were to go bankrupt, would we the tax payers have to bail them out, like was done with Banks and Auto sector? Of course we would, just ask Senators like Barney Franks or other that are hiding from the voters. So is it really a move away from a socialized universal health care or just another way for this Government to come in with dismantling the current health care insurance programs over a five year period, through the back door by taxpayer funding for these Coop, non-profit health care insurance programs through HR3200 which is the largest Federal Government power grab from the people and their doctors and local State Governments in history of our Federation?

did u really write all that?

[Spaz]

Originally Posted by Jack Burton did u really write all that?

no, didn't realize i dissed the author and can't find the article now.....
my bad ,if you thought i was smart.

[Spaz]

Originally Posted by kali An interview with Wendell Potter former head of corporate communications at Cigna, one of the largest health insurance companies in America. an interesting interview.

thanks this was interesting. seemed mostly opinion based, but interesting. imo

[kali]

Originally Posted by SPAZREED thanks this was interesting. seemed mostly opinion based, but interesting. imo

of course!
the main reason for finding his opinion useful is that he was one of the people fucking sick people over.

and he admits it.

[Spaz]

Originally Posted by kali of course! the main reason for finding his opinion useful is that he was one of the people fucking sick people over. and he admits it.

i got that . and will say that there is a lot that needs to be done to fix our system, but its going to take far more than just calling the medical insurance companies evil and greedy. then giving the control to the govt. who has never run anything efficiently .

[milkman]

Originally Posted by SPAZREED i got that . and will say that there is a lot that needs to be done to fix our system, but its going to take far more than just calling the medical insurance companies evil and greedy. then giving the control to the govt. who has never run anything efficiently .

Yeah, there is a lot that can be done. We can all agree on that!! But this shotgun take over approach isn't the answer. Then when that doesn't fly, try the sneak in the whole thing before recess gimmick, hell, they won't read this thing before break.

The problem is why do they have to fix something in 3 months of negotiations, that took several decades to fuck up??

Fix certain things at a time, and the rest will wall in place. The gov can't run anything as a business!! Never could and never will be able to!! IMO of course!!

[kali]

+ YouTube Video

now here's an interesting discussion!

[Spaz]

AL Frankin WHAT A JOKE ...........

[kali]

I really enjoyed Frankin in that clip! he was articulate...and we need more of that. these complex issues need people who can communicate with people.

the devil is in the details and we will never hammer those out without people who can express them