Healthcare Reform

[Feisty]

I am curious about how you guys feel about Pres. Obama's plans for healthcare reform. Trying to reign in the insurance industry, making it available to all Americans...

Let's discuss. xoxo

[milkman]

I think it is pathetic!! We already have medicaid/medicare and most states have sumthin similar.

Our gov, specially now, can't run anything like a business. So anything they do will be another form of hand out that will be bloated and bankrupt us further!!

[Hank]

Now you've gone and done it fiesty...see what you've created....j/k I'll be watchin this one this one from the sidelines....I know it'll get real good... I know yall never dissappoint us...:munch2:

[Feisty]

I think it is pathetic!! We already have medicaid/medicare and most states have sumthin similar.

Our gov, specially now, can't run anything like a business. So anything they do will be another form of hand out that will be bloated and bankrupt us further!!


I understand your point Milk, but with so many uninsured Americans bloating our ER's and never paying the bills, missing work because of lack of preventative care, and Medicare and Medicaid being vastly inferior....what do we do?

[milkman]

I just think another fuckin gov operated system isn't gonna work, and it's going to cost all of us a lot more and we won't get anything out of it.

Some things I think need to be done are:

1. A big percentage of those that show up at ER's with no insurance are illegals. We need to quit being so damn compassionate. Detain them for deportation and charge their countries gov the cot of their care. Shit we give money to damn near every country, subtract what their citizens are costing us. I'd really like to see us quit giving so much aid in the first place!! Why do we have to support all of these fuckin countries??
But that is another issue.

2. Tort reform on frivolous medical lawsuits. (well all frivolous lawsuits). Some of these payments are ridiculous. Dr's malpractice insurance is so outrageous now, it is driving many out of the field or to less critical fields. Which again Dr's have to charge more for every patient to cover it.

3. Hospital charge reform. For instance, when I was between jobs with no insurance, my son fell off of his powerwheel and hit his head. It swelled up bad. I took him to ER, had a CAT scna etc. When I got the bill I was floored. $1800 just for the CT!!! I was shocked!! I had my ex wife call the hospital cuz she works for a Dr and she asked how much would it be if a patient with insurance needed a CT. They told her $900!! Why the fuck are they charging me double??? I fought them and won!! but how many don't??

4. Insurance reform as well more at the state level. State govs need to make it clear, if an insurance company wants to sell policies in the state, they have to offer all types of insurance they have, not pick and choose. Like here in Fl, it is getting impossible to get home insurance, which I just again am getting canceled and have to find another one. At this point I will likely end up in the insurance of last resort shit.

Well these are some of the ideas I think will help better than another f'd up gov program that is not going to work and will be out of control like Mcaid/Care.

[Feisty]

I see a lot of your points Milkman, and I agree, government run healthcare isn't the ideal. But what is? As someone who has a chronic and incurable disease, I'm stuck with my current insurance.

They raise my rates every year, and I can't do a thing about it, because my medications would cost $7500 a month. I turned down Medicare because it would cost me more. What do we do? What do I do? And I'm lucky. What do we do for the people who have lost everything because of illness? I know many. They lose their job, can't afford COBRA, then their homes, and spend everything on doctors and meds. It's a shitty situation.

[DFender]

Ugh. Aggravating. If I had the answer I'd be a wealthy woman. I don't think more government in our lives is a plus in any situation. Evvvvaaaar. Government should be for law enforcement, defense and protection only.

Use the Medicare, Medicaid and welfare money for more research instead so we can whittle away at cures for the incurable diseases? Tort reform? Slap the illegals to back from whence they came? Private healthcare affordability? WTF do I know? I'm just a common citizen who'd prefer to be responsible for herself. A fuckin' novel approach, I know.

//endrant

Disclaimer: The comments posted in the above thread are in no way directed at the ever lovely Feisty :D

[Feisty]

I know Deb, I agree with most of what you and Milk say. But the cost of private insurance needs to be capped. I don't know. I am working with President Obama and his campaign on healthcare. At this point it's all about ideas and that's why I'm asking.

[Steve44]

Oh Fiesty, I'm sos sorry to hear about the costs. I knew that you had disabilities, but had no idea the cost of the medication. I wish I could offer an alternative, other than moving to Canada and claiming refugee status, then you can get your coverage for free, pretty much. Again, I'm so sorry. The solutions that are in the works for the US are going to be more costly and less effective.

[Feisty]

Oh Fiesty, I'm sos sorry to hear about the costs. I knew that you had disabilities, but had no idea the cost of the medication. I wish I could offer an alternative, other than moving to Canada and claiming refugee status, then you can get your coverage for free, pretty much. Again, I'm so sorry. The solutions that are in the works for the US are going to be more costly and less effective.


Steve, don't be sorry, and I'm not really disabled..lol. I have MS. No one would know most of the time BECAUSE of those medications and my wonderful doctor's. I'm lucky, many aren't. I don't fault the pharmaceutical companies, at least not all of them. One of my meds, the injection, is a biological, and cannot be made as a generic. It's made in tiny batches..etc. It costs millions to bring a drug to market. Like Milk said, hospitals are out of control.

When my Dad was dying, he was in the hospital for about 3 weeks before they sent him home to die. He was a wealthy man, so he had the best insurance you could have. About a month after he died, my Mom got a statement from the insurance company saying they settled with the hospital for $120,000. The total bill was over $1,300,000!!!! My Mom called the insurance company to figure out what was going on. They told her if she wasn't insured she would have been responsible for the full $1,300,000.

I've said enough for now..lol.

[Spaz]

bad idea !!! name one program that the federal government runs efficiently . why would i want them to have any more control in my life?
as our system is now its still the best in the world . no matter what people think there will never be this utopia of health care that the left is selling right now. never.

[milkman]

Not to mention, they keep floating this number of 40-45 million people without healthcare.

Well lets first subtract a lot of young folks who choose not to participate in their employer health plan. Prolly what, 10 million?

Now let's definitely subtract all of the illegals that the politicians like to inlcude to make the situation seem so dire!! Another what, 15 million? Or are we supposed to pay for them too? Ask your congressman who supports this shit that question?? You'll get, aahhh, baahhh well ya see, ahhh!!

Now subtract all those that choose not to even work, cept under the radar or illicit!! Prolly another 2-3 million?

My numbers may not be accurate, but I'm sure you see the point.

Heathcare/Insurance does need fixing, no doubt. But to rush through a plan because, as Obama said, "the stars are aligned to get this done" is fucking ludicrous. What he menat is "while the public is in such angst, and the dems have control, we better get this through now or it will end up like Hillary care". Just like is happening now when people get to actually see the things that they are trying to get through!!

This is a travesty to say the least!!

And then let the government run it??? Just look at medicare/medicaid!! Why would this end up any different? Ask the politicians this too!!! Same ahhhhh, answers!!

[Rock & Roll Ghost]

the medical business needs to be reigned in somehow. Is the government running health care the answer? I don't know. I know that too many people that have money to throw at politicians tend to muck up the water and makes for confusion about the subject.

I would be fine having the system that's in place in Canada or in the UK, quite frankly. I think more needs to be done in prevention, too.

I also believe that what's going on now at some of these meetings is hilarious, though. I like that the conservatives are getting a taste of the shitty dick that liberals had to suck on during the Bush years.

Ah fuck it - it's all bullshit, right? It changes, it don't changes - you'll have people complaining either way.

[SJ]

If america can absorb the initial cost of the health care like ours in Canada - it could work - however the timing now, with the economy the way it is - I can't see any major changes coming soon, except putting a cap on fee's that they can charge for services and prescriptions...

[Spaz]

http://www.google.com/hostednews/canadianpress/article/ALeqM5jbjzPEY0Y3bvRD335rGu_Z3KXoQw

this is not the answer its a flawed model as is the UK'S. i don't got the answer,but i do know that our govt. is on a power trip and this" health care reform" is a power grab .
and not to be a dick ,but please show me in the constitution the part where it says we all get health care.

[Rock & Roll Ghost]

does it have to be in the constitution?

and power grab? what was the stomping on our civil rights the previous 8 years?

[Spaz]

does it have to be in the constitution?

and power grab? what was the stomping on our civil rights the previous 8 years?

yes power grab. and i agree with you on the last 8 years .

[Rock & Roll Ghost]

I don't know about the power grab thing - I think a public option - another choice is a good idea. It will be a good kick in the ass letting the health care industry know how displeased people are with them.

[Spaz]

I don't know about the power grab thing - I think a public option - another choice is a good idea. It will be a good kick in the ass letting the health care industry know how displeased people are with them.

the govt . proposed reform as is now will give them control of one sixth of the economy.
thats a lot power that they don't have now . just saying..

[Spaz]

First, any honest lawyer or lay person who has truly read the health bill, passed by the House, the only conclusion one could come to is that it is NOT a health care reform piece of legislation. However it is clearly a federal government power grab to control health benefits and treatments under private or public plans.

It further will take away responsibilities or restrictions concerning same from the local State Governments, doctors and private insurance companies and put this power and responsibility into the hands of an UN-elected health Commissioner.

With more than 85% of Americans satisfied with the coverage available to them, why are Democrats and Republican Senators and House Members, supported by their respective political parties, lobbyists and special interest groups, rushing to Dismantle the existing health care insurance programs?

Do Americans travel to Canada, Cuba, England or France etc. to seek health care? Of course not.

Is the so called reform, then, mainly to include health benefits for the 15 to 20 million illegal's and non-Americans? Is it to cover the 2 to 3 million who do not have and can not afford health care coverage for political reasons?

Or, the power grab is it is written, for the Federal Government and political parties too further control your life style, treatment and health benefits through unelected bureaucrats and czars making treatment or benefit decisions for us based on the cheapest available drug or health procedures? The one blue pill fits all approach!

Why is there NO clause or statement in any proposed health reform bill or HR3200 that specifically states that NON-CITIZENS will NOT be entitled to benefits under the Government socialized universal health care program. WHY?

The Obama power grab for a socialized universal health care government run program, will lead to the complete dismantling of the current health care insurance system within 5 years. Read it, it is in the bill.

Now Obama-Care is considering Government financed co-operative non-profit health care insurance programs. This in itself might be a good move, but it raises a number of questions that need to be answered.

Like is the Government going to fund these co-operative non-profits out of our taxes?

Is there going to be a restriction that clearly states that only legalized American residents will be in a position to join and receive benefits from these Coops.?

If they are funded through taxes, like those companies who asked for and took the tarp money they will be subject to how the money is spend and what health services will be covered and who will be calling the shots relating to treatments? Government unelected bureaucrats and political czars or patience's and their doctors? As, all these also presently exist in the House Bill 3200. Read it.

Further if and when these non-profits were to go bankrupt, would we the tax payers have to bail them out, like was done with Banks and Auto sector? Of course we would, just ask Senators like Barney Franks or other that are hiding from the voters.

So is it really a move away from a socialized universal health care or just another way for this Government to come in with dismantling the current health care insurance programs over a five year period, through the back door by taxpayer funding for these Coop, non-profit health care insurance programs through HR3200 which is the largest Federal Government power grab from the people and their doctors and local State Governments in history of our Federation?

[kali]

An interview with Wendell Potter (http://www.guernicamag.com/spotlight/1207/the_last_temptation_of_wendell/)

former head of corporate communications at Cigna, one of the largest health insurance companies in America. an interesting interview.


Guernica: Shifting to President Obama’s plan: critics often say that Obama’s healthcare plan would be detrimental to care because it would take decisions away from doctors and patients and put them in the hands of a government bureaucrat. Is this a legitimate concern?

Wendell Potter: No. But it is one of those talking points the industry repeats every time we have a debate about reform. They said it in 1993. They say it whenever the industry is under threat of increased government involvement. What I’m telling people is that our current reality is far scarier than the fear-mongering. What people have now is a corporate bureaucrat who stands between a person and his or her doctor. That’s much scarier than the specter of more government. In any event, there is nothing in any healthcare plan that is being proposed that would put a government bureaucrat between a person and his or her doctor.

Guernica: Why is a corporate bureaucrat scarier?

Wendell Potter: Because every person who works for a for-profit company knows that the company has to meet Wall Street’s expectations. Every manager of the company has to pull his or her weight to make sure he and his team are doing all that they can to help the company meet that objective. That includes medical directors. Same with the nurses. They know what the company has to do to meet Wall Street’s expectations and to stay in the good graces of investors.

Guernica: So in other words, corporate bureaucrats have a profit incentive to deny care to people who are enrolled in their plans.

[Ken Masters]

First, any honest lawyer or lay person who has truly read the health bill, passed by the House, the only conclusion one could come to is that it is NOT a health care reform piece of legislation. However it is clearly a federal government power grab to control health benefits and treatments under private or public plans.

It further will take away responsibilities or restrictions concerning same from the local State Governments, doctors and private insurance companies and put this power and responsibility into the hands of an UN-elected health Commissioner.

With more than 85% of Americans satisfied with the coverage available to them, why are Democrats and Republican Senators and House Members, supported by their respective political parties, lobbyists and special interest groups, rushing to Dismantle the existing health care insurance programs?

Do Americans travel to Canada, Cuba, England or France etc. to seek health care? Of course not.

Is the so called reform, then, mainly to include health benefits for the 15 to 20 million illegal's and non-Americans? Is it to cover the 2 to 3 million who do not have and can not afford health care coverage for political reasons?

Or, the power grab is it is written, for the Federal Government and political parties too further control your life style, treatment and health benefits through unelected bureaucrats and czars making treatment or benefit decisions for us based on the cheapest available drug or health procedures? The one blue pill fits all approach!

Why is there NO clause or statement in any proposed health reform bill or HR3200 that specifically states that NON-CITIZENS will NOT be entitled to benefits under the Government socialized universal health care program. WHY?

The Obama power grab for a socialized universal health care government run program, will lead to the complete dismantling of the current health care insurance system within 5 years. Read it, it is in the bill.

Now Obama-Care is considering Government financed co-operative non-profit health care insurance programs. This in itself might be a good move, but it raises a number of questions that need to be answered.

Like is the Government going to fund these co-operative non-profits out of our taxes?

Is there going to be a restriction that clearly states that only legalized American residents will be in a position to join and receive benefits from these Coops.?

If they are funded through taxes, like those companies who asked for and took the tarp money they will be subject to how the money is spend and what health services will be covered and who will be calling the shots relating to treatments? Government unelected bureaucrats and political czars or patience's and their doctors? As, all these also presently exist in the House Bill 3200. Read it.

Further if and when these non-profits were to go bankrupt, would we the tax payers have to bail them out, like was done with Banks and Auto sector? Of course we would, just ask Senators like Barney Franks or other that are hiding from the voters.

So is it really a move away from a socialized universal health care or just another way for this Government to come in with dismantling the current health care insurance programs over a five year period, through the back door by taxpayer funding for these Coop, non-profit health care insurance programs through HR3200 which is the largest Federal Government power grab from the people and their doctors and local State Governments in history of our Federation?



did u really write all that? :jj:

[Spaz]

did u really write all that? :jj:

no, didn't realize i dissed the author and can't find the article now.....
my bad ,if you thought i was smart.:D

[Spaz]

An interview with Wendell Potter (http://www.guernicamag.com/spotlight/1207/the_last_temptation_of_wendell/)

former head of corporate communications at Cigna, one of the largest health insurance companies in America. an interesting interview.

thanks this was interesting. seemed mostly opinion based, but interesting. imo

[kali]

thanks this was interesting. seemed mostly opinion based, but interesting. imo
of course!
the main reason for finding his opinion useful is that he was one of the people fucking sick people over.

and he admits it.

[Spaz]

of course!
the main reason for finding his opinion useful is that he was one of the people fucking sick people over.

and he admits it.

i got that . and will say that there is a lot that needs to be done to fix our system, but its going to take far more than just calling the medical insurance companies evil and greedy. then giving the control to the govt. who has never run anything efficiently .

[milkman]

i got that . and will say that there is a lot that needs to be done to fix our system, but its going to take far more than just calling the medical insurance companies evil and greedy. then giving the control to the govt. who has never run anything efficiently .


Yeah, there is a lot that can be done. We can all agree on that!! But this shotgun take over approach isn't the answer. Then when that doesn't fly, try the sneak in the whole thing before recess gimmick, hell, they won't read this thing before break.

The problem is why do they have to fix something in 3 months of negotiations, that took several decades to fuck up??

Fix certain things at a time, and the rest will wall in place. The gov can't run anything as a business!! Never could and never will be able to!! IMO of course!!

[kali]

SCNs7Zpqo98

now here's an interesting discussion!

[Spaz]

hahaha AL Frankin WHAT A JOKE ...........

[kali]

I really enjoyed Frankin in that clip! he was articulate...and we need more of that. these complex issues need people who can communicate with people.

the devil is in the details and we will never hammer those out without people who can express them

[Spaz]

I really enjoyed Frankin in that clip! he was articulate...and we need more of that. these complex issues need people who can communicate with people.

the devil is in the details and we will never hammer those out without people who can express them

im sorry i watched this a few times to hear what i missed and he didn't say any thing of substance to support the govt. controlling the health care system. as for him communicating around the 7:18 mark as he talks down to a man with a question ,that he did not answer. he himself points out FLAWS with Medicare in Mcowen Texas over paying by three times as another city with "same demographics "which one time was Rochester the other El Paso. a great example of how the govt. is not capable to handle such a thing. so we just dis agree on Frankin . and i am for people being responsible for them selves and not being dependent on the govt. i know that there are some who NEED the help and we need to find away to help,but forcing universal health care on the citizens who do not want it nor want to pay for it is wrong.imo he also mentioned Switzerland as example saying this is what the bill is like and that is not true

[kali]

my understanding is that the plan is NOT to force EVERYONE to get health insureance from the governement. it's that the government will offer an alternative that people can choose if they wish.

from what I've heard germany's plan seems to work quite well - who knows, maybe it's JUST because they are german :jj:

my point about Al is that he is TALKING with people - not yelling at them. there's an attempt at communicating instead of bullying

he expects people to disagree here and there.

[milkman]

my understanding is that the plan is NOT to force EVERYONE to get health insureance from the governement. it's that the government will offer an alternative that people can choose if they wish.

from what I've heard germany's plan seems to work quite well - who knows, maybe it's JUST because they are german :jj:

my point about Al is that he is TALKING with people - not yelling at them. there's an attempt at communicating instead of bullying

he expects people to disagree here and there.

Now what is developing is they want to "fine" people that choose not to have insurance, making it "Mandatory" like car insurance!!

Why don't they address having ala carte insurance plans, like they do for autos?

Why don't they allow health insurance companies to offer services across state lines?

Why not make it "Mandatory" for an insurance company to sell one type of insurance in a state, they must offer all? Let the market decide what people will pay!!

Here in Fla, we are always being forced to find new insurance because we "might" be at risk for a hurricane. Yet these same companies want to sell all the profitable insurance with little risk.

The biggest questions they still don't address. How are they coming up wtih their 50 million person count of those without insurance?
25 % illegals?
25% of those that choose to take a risk rather than pay for the OFFERED insurance to them?
25% of those that operate illegally, and prolly get better health care than the rest of us?

By the way, ask any German how "free" their health care is!!!

How about get rid of the lobbyist that make the rules? Prosecute politicians on the take?

How bout American citizens quit relying on gov to be their fuckin guardian???

The way it is going, soon, more than 50% of our nation will rely on gov services to live!! When this happens, democracy will be gone, the majority will vote for being socialist handout recipients, that don't have to work, or care!!

Just what appears to be happening to me!!!

[kali]

yVgOl3cETb4

[milkman]

Still doesn't address the real issues we have and how every single plan that has been proposed does nothin but expand those problems and solves none!!

My idea of reform is not going from owning a house to sleeping on the street and waiting for the gov to give me a rent check!!

[Mugsy]

I know SOMETHING needs to be done.

My mom's boyfriend owns his own business. He is willing to pay, and can afford his own insurance...but they won't insure him because he's 55, and hasn't been insured for the past 8 years. He's in EXCELLENT shape, plays basketball with college kids ( and OWNS most of them), doesn't smoke, rarely drinks, and works HARD daily. WHY THE FUCK should he be denied, when LAZY FUCKS get covered for free?
And we don't need insurance reform? PLEASE! The current system is FUCKED!!

I pay $500.00 a month through my employer, and it doesn't cover wellness check ups and other doctors visits for my kids; but if you're on welfare, those doctor visits are free.

So if i quit my job, i can get better health coverage for my children? Even though i pay now?

SOMETHING definitely needs to be changed.

[milkman]

In my opinion there are 3 major things, that if changed in health care insurance, could greatly reduce costs and make it affordable for those who are willing to pay, not those that choose not to be covered even if they can be. Like a lot of 20-30 sumthins choose to do. I did when I was that age!! I was invincible!! lol

1. Allow insurance companies to combine and offer policies nationally. This would help in two ways. The first, it would bypass a lot of state laws like you have to be covered for everything or no coverage at all, which varies greatly from state to state. Pretty much creat a carte plans. Secondly, it would increase the "pool" size of each policy group within an insurance company. Which is my understanding of how they do it. IE, Singles with no dependents are in one pool, etc. The more in a pool the lower the cost should be for that pool.

2. Allow individuals to be able to create groups they can buy into from each carrier. Sumthin like, self employed contractors can form a group to buy insurance like large employers do. Again, the larger the pool of those willing to pay, the lower the cost
should be. Give these groups the same tax advantages that large corps have.This is
prolly the biggest reason why healtcare is so unaffordable to most self employed or
those not offered health insurance through work.

3. Somehow,without compromising the ideal of capitalism, regulate charges that hospitals
can charge. For instance, patient A goes to hospital for prcedure A and it costs $10000.
Patient B goes to same hospital for same procedure and it costs $18000. Why such a disparity? I understand the insurance companies negotiate to the lowest possibe price they can. But somehow here has to be a median that levels the playing field.

I'm no genius or industry expert, but these seem like comon sense things that can be addressed NOW in seperate small bills and isn't going to cost a trillion fuckin dollars to implement!!

Another big thing I think should be done is for our government to collect fees paid or illegals from their fuckin country. Or withhold this much in aid we give them!! Lord knows we give aid to everyone fuckin country on the planet!! Enough is enough!!

I sure don't get how they are going to "pay" for their plan "by cutting waste and reducing cost in medicaid/care" while at the same time "Expand" this bloated broken plan, and then "fine" insurers, device manfg., and those that choose not to buy their plan!!

How in the fuck does this work??

Now there are a lot of other things that can be fixed, no doubt. But does it have to be an all out wholesale gutwrench into the abyss, or can and should it not be done in pieces that will actually work and can be implemented very quickly?

Just some of me thoughts!!

[kali]

I wish drugs were not so overpriced : Baucus health bill (http://rawstory.com/08/news/2009/09/15/big-pharma-baucus-bill/). And frankly I wish people were not so dependent on drugs.

if you wish to be healthy - stay Healthy - ie, Prevention is the real key.

[milkman]

I agree with that Kali!! What's the saying...an ounce of prevention is worth a shitload of medical care cost!!

Not saying I participate wholeheartedly in the prevention aspect!!

[Spaz]

just a reminder as you are enjoying this day our govt is going to be passing the huge not needed govt intrusion health care bill we are fucked !!!! ............
soon they will have control of every aspect of your life... its in there oh yeah and your checking and savings accounts too ..................glad your feeling good !!!

[Spaz]

:rolleyes:

[milkman]

Not a good day at all!! All we can hope for now is really the libs thinking it is not "giving" enough in the House and they can't negotiate!! WE ARE FUCKED!!!

[milkman]

Does anyone else see an issue with this? The president is basically negotiating with private entities to discuss federal legislation. Does this not seem illegal if not downright blatant unethical???

This type of action by this admin is really getting absurd.

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2010/01/09/obama-meet-union-leaders-monday-opposition-cadillac-tax/

[Spaz]

Does anyone else see an issue with this? The president is basically negotiating with private entities to discuss federal legislation. Does this not seem illegal if not downright blatant unethical???

This type of action by this admin is really getting absurd.

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2010/01/09/obama-meet-union-leaders-monday-opposition-cadillac-tax/

EVERYTHING this administration is doing is absurd !!!!! when every citizen is poor then
he has accomplished his goals .

[Mugsy]

I think they should give every legal working citizen and his/her immediate family the same health coverage congress gets.:D

[Mugsy]

Well...me mums boyfriend tore his achilles tendon playing basketball, while on vacation. He has no insurance. They would only insure him on major medical, and guess what. The emergency surgery needed to fix it, isn't covered.
Hopefully he'll be able to rehab it enough to do his landscaping business in the spring, or he'll be living off of me mum.
Health care in this country SUCKS!!!

[Spaz]

Yep it does,but its only like that cause of all the bullshit attached to it and Govt. regulations .

And now we have our hospitals here being slammed with Haitian refugees
thats fucked up and this govt. we have is to fucking stupid to see the problems
with bringing these people here.. It sucks for the people there and it is a terrible thing
but if you heard the show today at the almost 1 billion dollars we have gave the Haitians.
WHY DO THEY NOT HAVE HOSPITALS !?! How are they not prepared knowing
they live on a fault line ?

[Spaz]

got some time give it a read ............
http://www.heritage.org/Research/Reports/2009/12/Why-the-Personal-Mandate-to-Buy-Health-Insurance-Is-Unprecedented-and-Unconstitutionaln theory, the proposed mandate for individuals to purchase health insurance could be severed from the rest of the 2,000-plus-page "reform" bill. The legislation's key sponsors, however, have made it clear that the mandate is an integral, indeed "essential," part of the bill.[54] After all, the revenues paid by conscripted citizens to the insurance companies are needed to compensate for the increased costs imposed upon these companies and the health care industry by the myriad regulations of this bill.

The very reason why an unpopular health insurance mandate has been included in these bills shows why, if it is held unconstitutional, the remainder of the scheme will prove politically and economically disastrous. Members need only recall how the Supreme Court's decision in Buckley v. Valeo--which invalidated caps on campaign spending as unconstitutional, while leaving the rest of the scheme intact--has created 30 plus years of incoherent and pernicious regulations of campaign financing and the need for repeated "reforms." Only this time, the public is aligned against a scheme that will require repeated unpopular votes, especially to raise taxes to compensate for the absence of the health insurance mandate.

These political considerations are beyond the scope of this paper, and the expertise of its authors. But Senators and Representatives need to know that, despite what they have been told, the health insurance mandate is highly vulnerable to challenge because it is, in truth, unconstitutional. And political considerations aside, each legislator owes a duty to uphold the Constitution.